So the Army called me last night...

[eumelia]

And asked me to come in for a day or two some time in the future.

I wonder if the new Reserve office made it clear to my old Unit that I'm not coming back.
That I'm unable to even think about doing what they want me to do.
I'm not cut out for this sort of thing, I went there to help a friend, I went there because my friend asked for help and I did what I could to help.
But I can't anymore.
Not when my heart starts to beat like a it's pumping it's going into a heart attack any second. When just thinking about going down into that bunker causes me to become this meek, spineless, crybaby.

Daddy asked me if I regret going into the Army last summer and one level no I don't, because I helped people and I helped my friends, but on another, yes I do. I regret that I had to come home every night and cry my eyes out and that I had to lose five kilos of weight due to stress. I regret serving in a War that did nothing but kill people, if we had attained our goals maybe it wouldn't have felt so worthless, but all this War did was make Israel look reckless, aggressive and unprepared for fighting an asymmetrical war.

I'm not cut out for watching monitors that show people being killed, and you know despite the fact that the people I saw die had no regard for life and that their goal was to destroy my home, which contrary to what some people think, I love. I can't fight for it the way it asks of me.

I can't.
I love my country, I hate my government. I love the soldiers, I hate the generals. I love the people, I hate the politics.

I love Israel, but I gave what I can and I have nothing else to give that it wants.
All I can offer is that I'll continue writing about what goes on here and tell people that yes, bad things happen here, but since when has bad things happening, made bad people.

Daddy when I told him that essentially yes, I regret having gone to the Army in the summer, despite not regretting helping my friend, I don't feel it was a good time for me. Daddy thinks it was good for me, "a new experience". And let's not forget the money.
Fuck that.
Seriously.
Fuck. That.
War is not "experience". And neither is a drill, not anymore.
I don't enjoy being a bitchy reservist that causes problems to my old unit, but I've been there and it's not the first time they've been low on personnel and it won't be the last, so they'll have to deal without Mel.
And yes it hurts me to do this, but I come first and going to a Drill is not in my best interests.
And asking me "wouldn't you earn money from it?", is not an okay question to ask when I've explained my position!

Comments

[antongarou.livejournal.com]

*Hug*

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

[morin.livejournal.com]

I think it's good you're not going. There's money in all sorts of things not worth doing.
Love you.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Thank you.
Love you too.

[hakuzo.livejournal.com]

[hagar-972.livejournal.com]

I can't pretend to be okay with the view you're presenting here.

I regret serving in a War that did nothing but kill people, if we had attained our goals maybe it wouldn't have felt so worthless, but all this War did was make Israel look reckless, aggressive and unprepared for fighting an asymmetrical war.

A war is not justified by its results. This is a very important point the Israeli public seems to have forgotten, alongsite with the facts that people get killed in a war, both on our side and the other.
A war is justified - or not - by its cause. Claiming that a war should by justified - or not - in retrospect is absurd, as that information was not available when the decision to go to war was made.

I love my country, I hate my government. I love the soldiers, I hate the generals. I love the people, I hate the politics.

Oh, sure. Because I think that Ulmert is teh awesome. Get real. Coming to reserve is not about showing love for the higher-ups. It's about keeping the civilians and the soldiers in the front alive.

Not when my heart starts to beat like a it's pumping it's going into a heart attack any second. When just thinking about going down into that bunker causes me to become this meek, spineless, crybaby.

Trauma is something to be treated, same as post-trauma. Neither is a reason to avoid doing something - anything. Unless, of course, you happen to believe in bearing crosses and victimizing oneself, in which case go ahead, wallow in the misery of your trauma and don't ever think of facing it or of overcoming it. (There's 'needing time' and there's what you said, and they're not the same, so don't try to use this excuse later, all right?)

And asking me "wouldn't you earn money from it?", is not an okay question to ask when I've explained my position!

Asking about the money is wrong of reasons completely irrelevant to your reasoning and it presentation. You probably make more money in your civilian jobs than you would from 2-3 days of drill. Even the war service, with its financial bonuses, wasn't high payment - particulalry if one considers the number of hours put in, weekend shifts etc. Your father's question seems to stem from lack of knowledge regarding the reserve payment.

Look, Mel, it's not your decision i'm objecting to. But I can't consider the arguments you present here as anything but faulty.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Look, Mel, it's not your decision i'm objecting to. But I can't consider the arguments you present here as anything but faulty.

Odd, seeing we discussed this issue quite extensively the last time we spoke in person (before the exam party) and you didn't seem to find anything faulty in my reasoning.
I don't actually need to explain myself to anyone, see I went there for you, my friend, and for you alone, and I'm happy that I could help you and that no one crashed and burned too badly.
Please refrain from criticizing and belittling my feelings on the matter, thank you.

[hagar-972.livejournal.com]

Odd, seeing we discussed this issue quite extensively the last time we spoke in person (before the exam party) and you didn't seem to find anything faulty in my reasoning.

This is not how you presented your reasoning before. For example, the "end justifies the war" arguement wasn't mentioned before at all that i've heard. Neither was already-existing trauma.

The picture i've had was that you were opposed to service because you're against wars (in general) to a point that makes service too hard for you, and that you would rather not participate in a potentially-traumatizing activity again. (Yes, there's a difference between "possibly acquiring a new trauma" and an old trauma not yet being healed.) This is not the picture you presented in your above post.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay.

None of what I've written above negates any of what we discussed. And in this War specifically, it's very easy to see the consequences which only brought death and pain to both sides because War doesn't discriminate. And yes I oppose war on principal and it is because of my principals that I won't participate in any activity of that kind anymore. I'm still allowed to feel pain for what happened, none of which is "bearing crosses and victimizing" or "wallowing in misery", I've decided to stop doing that, but i can't help if I on occaision feel bad slip up in that regard.
It was very hard for me to say no to Ortal, but there was no way for me to go back due to what I wrote and what we spoke about.
The two, in my mind, are not mutually exclusive.

I'm sorry, I usually don't get involved in other people's threads

[ravrhi.livejournal.com]

because generally speaking, it isn't my business, and I don't know both people in this thread, so before we begin, hi, Hagar, my name is Eva. I lived in Israel for awhile, which is how I know Melody.

This comment: Trauma is something to be treated, same as post-trauma. Neither is a reason to avoid doing something - anything. Unless, of course, you happen to believe in bearing crosses and victimizing oneself, in which case go ahead, wallow in the misery of your trauma and don't ever think of facing it or of overcoming it. (There's 'needing time' and there's what you said, and they're not the same, so don't try to use this excuse later, all right?)

really disturbs me. As someone who has been both a sexual assault survivor and a sexual assault counselor, I feel I am able to speak a bit to this statement. I used to agree with you 100%, that trauma is not a reason to avoid doing anything. So after I had been through counseling for two years for my assults, (yes, there were multiple assualts), I became a rape crisis counseler. Working as a counseler ripped open so many old wounds that I thought I had completely dealt with. I ended up one night, with my boifriend's gun (he was a cop), begging him to take out the bullets and hide them so that I wouldn't be able to use it on myself.

I thought all I needed was time an counseling. And maybe that is still all I need, but I also needed to not put myself in a situation where I would be dealing with the same shit again, which I did not. I loved helping people, I loved being there for the woman and men who needed someone to talk to at strange hours of the night, and needed someone to sit and hold their hand during their rape kits, but it got to the point where just thinking about my job sent me into panic attacks. It wasn't because I was wallowing, it was because I knew that I was going to be re-victimized vicariously. So when I read ...just thinking about going into that bunker causes me to become this meek, spineless, crybaby. what I am reading is, "I know what is waiting for me there, and I know that I am not yet healed from dealing with it the last time, and I know that going there is not what is best for me or my unit."

Sometimes we don't need to face what scares us head-on, and we don't need to put our own needs second or third to the needs of others or our bank accounts. Sometimes we need to be able to say, "I can't handle this right now, I'm sorry, but I am putting my needs first because in the end, that is really what will be best for everybody."

And I end this response with a quote from a song by one of my personal heroes, Ani DiFranco: ...she said/you'll never know dear/just how much I loved you/you probably think was just my big excuse./But I stand committed/to the one who came before you/and the fact that I adore you/is just one of my truths.

I hope this has helped you understand perhaps a different point of view.

I don't mind the 'intrusion' :)

[hagar-972.livejournal.com]

Hi, Eva, and welcome to the discussion :). LJ-land would've been a lot more boring if we all stuck talking just to people we know from off-net, no?

First off - from victim to counselor. *bows*

Now. Story goes like this. melody_kitty and I were friends in high school - she was two school years below me, one year younger. We lost contact when I graduated. Two years later, she arrived to the same unit I served at. While that was incidental, her being assigned to the same war station as I was anything but: she was specifically assigned to this post 'cause she's my friend. I'm the one who trained her for this job, i'm the one who pronounced her up and able.
Fast forward a few years. Ten days after returning from a six-months stay at the US, war started. Fourteen days after Mel's return, I called her from the army, saying: "Come over."

So there we were, sitting through roughly thirty days of shifts together. Yet, sometimes, it seems we sat in two different war rooms, experienced two different wars.

Me, my first year of service was one trauma after another. I was kicked out of the first section I served at 'cause my CO there thought I couldn't handle the stress. Years later, i'm responsible for eight other people and then for more on the level of making sure nobody loses too much weight; i'm the senior at a station pretty much holding the rest of the complex afloat. And i'm the kind of person who takes everything to heart: bad mix, that.
But I was there to get the job done, and Mel was there because I asked her to. We both shuddered at the destruction, we both went to sleep with a heavy heart.

We both needed much healing afterwords - I gave my collueges quite a hard time, was too edgy, for a few months. Going back for the first drill after the war sure sent my pulse up - but also dissipated most of the remaining trauma. I was reminded of how different are drills from reality - but I haven't forgotten how well the drills have prepared me. I haven't forgotten that the main reason my station was prepared was because of all the care and time I put into it as a reserve person.

And Mel? You have her post above. We sat through two different wars, she and I.

And it's hard for me: it's hard to accept that she - who seemed to hold together so much better than I through the war - is still struggling with things I had put behind. It's hard to accept that it's so, even that I know we're all different, because fuck that, we sat there together.

And maybe, possibly, I don't want to aknowledge how bad this is... because if I hadn't asked to summon her, she wouldn't have been summoned. (The officer in charge of the reserve activation doesn't like her.) If we hadn't been friends - she only got into this job because of me - if it hadn't been my voice on the phone, she probably wouldn't have come. Legally, she didn't have to. And even if I can sleep in peace with the destrution i've seen in South Lebanon... this'll keep me awake at night, if I think about it then.

Well

[morin.livejournal.com]

This may be ugly truth to tell, but you shouldn't put Mel through more trauma just to feel you didn't do her harm.
Shoving her back in, while still handaling trauma, is nothing but avoiding responsibility. Saying "She's okay, she didn't see a man dying, and he wasn't on our side anyway" when she's still having flashbacks and nightmares, is belittling what she went through so you can feel okay with yourself.
It's not okay to deprive your friends of support so you can feel you did nothing wrong. You can feel you did the right thing and still support a friend, who is going through a hard time.

There's always a price to pay.

Thank you

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I'm crying good tears from all this.

Re: Well

[hagar-972.livejournal.com]

You seem to have completely misunderstood.

And here's why i'm not going to explain, and why i'm simply not going to relate to anything you have said. In the past, if I posted with a rant about some of the idiotic things I have to deal with in reserve, or of the annoyance that it sometimes is, all you had to say was "Well, then, don't go." (Oh, I remember you offering to let me stay at PT during the war. I remember that with warmth and gratitude. But.)
But, while it's not the same as what you blamed me of doing, dismissing one's commitment is not right, either. And whatever sets of beliefs that make it okay for you to dismiss that makes you person whose opinions I am likely to ignore.

My beliefs are simple

[morin.livejournal.com]

It's putting people first.

I don't blame you for anything. I'm just saying a bit more sensitivity could be nice.

Re: My beliefs are simple

[hagar-972.livejournal.com]

*eyebrows raised*

I firmly believe that trampling individuals and their rights in the name of society is wrong - which is why i'm monitary Right, which is why I can be fierce about human rights sometimes.

I also believe that society is a neccesity of the individuals - which is why i'm not an anarchist, which is why I think that communities matter.

Society exists for the individuals, but if the individuals won't give of themselves, there won't be a society. Complex, hard, people get hurt and the structures don't always get all the support they need, either.

Is it really so simple for you? If it's hard, then don't do it? If some uniformed idiots make me snarl, I should not do reserve service, and the people living up north will pay for it (or, in the case of a war with Syria, everybody)? It's so fucking simple, isn't it.

People come first so I shouldn't call the one who's in post-trauma - or should I call her so that I can prevent more damage from the other two sitting day shifts with no one to allow them to take breaks, ever? Because that's the call i'm likely to be facing next war, you know.

[morin.livejournal.com]

You can keep pretending no one ever talked to you about those things, so people will have to re-explain what was explained, but it's just tiring.
You know very well I didn't tell you "Oh, it's hard, don't do it", but "If you keep going they will never train another person to your proffesional level". So this is besides the point.
I didn't say "If it's hard don't do it". I said "People first". That also means not risking anyone's lives by taking someone handaling a trauma to an essensial position, because they may stop functioning (either with or without taking a gun, shooting other people and themselves - something I hope Mel never does).
People come first, so you train extra amount of people for the important positions, So you don't call on those who are unable to do the job, so you risk as little lives as you can.
I'm not against communities, but no one should pay a price one's not willing to. If one would rather die than do, one should not be forced to do.

I think i'd rather stop here. I know what your stand is, I don't think it should prevent you from being supportive, and I don't see any point in digging my beliefs here. It's not the matter in discussion, and it won't matter anything at all.

[hagar-972.livejournal.com]

I agree that this discussion is pointless. I'm also highly tempted to go through my miluim tag and toss some of your quotes back at you.

And, if I don't come to drills, there won't be anyone to train the newbies. If I don't fight for it, there won't be newbies to train. There is no 'system', there are only people and their responsibilities. And if some of us didn't believe in Doing The Job, the rest of you would pay very dearly for 'people first'.

So as I said two comments above, I simply don't count your opinion on those matters.

Re: My beliefs are simple

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I just want to say that one of the hardest decisions I ever made was to say "No", but I knew that if I didn't I'd be compramising my pricipals and putting myself in a position that would cause me more pain and that's one of the reasons I felt I needed to write this post.

And no it's not simple, at all, I know this very, very well, but if the Army, GD forbid, needs to call miluim again for another war this summer I'm going to have to say "No" and I won't regret that.

[hagar-972.livejournal.com]

I hope we don't get there, but.

I need to replace both you, Yaron and Omer V. - Omer won't sign the volunteer form, Yaron is likely to be assigned to another station, and you're not really up to it. The only person I have on the roster which I didn't last summer is Lior. That's two new people I need, and I have to take into account that most newbies have lesser staminas, even if they otherwise rock.

So I hope I don't have to face that choice. But if it's war and it's been weeks and the people in active service - regulars and reservists - are burning out?

I don't get to be responsible just for my own well-being. I don't get to be responsible just for my personal friends. And it sounds like blaming you, when I put it like this, and I don't intend to blame you and I hope you know that, but...

But. At the end of the day, if there's another war this summer... Then, just like last summer, the call is mine. The responsibility is mine. And it's easy to say that it's for no other reason then for my own beliefs... but as I said to morin, if not for those of us with those beliefs, everyone else wouldn't have the privilege to opt out.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Oh, my darling friend, I didn't mean to imply blame on you or anybody else, really I didn't and I apologize profusely if it came out that way, that wasn't my intention and it certainly isn't the way I feel.

It does sometimes seem that we sat in different places and it's mainly this war that made me feel about war (in general) and how I react to phone calls from the army. But I love you very much and I don't regret one minute of being there with you.
I just really regret the circumstances and unfortunately I can't help how I feel about that.

[hagar-972.livejournal.com]

Oh, hon. I know that you don't blame me. I know that if we both faced that choice again, knowing what would come, we'd both make the same call and live with the same things later on.

But.

But I feel that during the war, you kept face in front of me. I'd had to learn from you LJ what was going on with you, when we were spending those crazy shifts together two days out of three, and the result is that maybe - maybe - I didn't know enough to pull you out in time. (Like I had pulled Ziv, for example.)

But it's still me who made that call, still me who told everyone so confidentally that you can do it, still me that because of whom you got into this training - fuck, into this unit.

Because I read what morin had said in her comment above and I wonder - are these things still going on? Is it still that bad? Why do I have to hear of those things from other people in roundabout ways, what is so wrong?

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I did keep face for you, because that's I felt I needed to do in order to a good job. We both talked about this, I felt that my job was to keep our heads above water if that happened because I happen to be a bit taller and I gave you a piggy bag then that's the what i had to do. And just like you would have refused to move to night, so would I, because you know I never would have agreed to be bumped.
I do get nightmares, but rarely and only after triggers (such as phone calls) and I am handling it, I'm not constantly thinking about it, or trying not to think about it. But sometimes these thoughts come unbidden, you know.
And it's not a roundabout way if I'm just writing it here, I don't feel the need to talk about it face to face, I write it down and I feel purged.

[hagar-972.livejournal.com]

If the whole lot of you lined up and told me i'm moving to night shifts? If you caught me told me, "Hon, it's time"? I would've moved to night shifts. I know better than to make those calls entirely on my own. I counted on the rest of you that you'll take me down should it be time, and I do hope that had it been time, you would've have fought it, either. Because the Right Thing To Do is also to know when to stop pushing yourself. And if you weren't able to do that - if you kept pushing over that red line, if you think you wouldn't have gone down to night, if you kept up face for that, then yes, you shouldn't have been there. You weren't up for it and my judgement call regarding you was wrong.

I repeat to you now what I had said to Ziv at the end of his last day shift: "I know you're not totally burned out yet. I know you still have strength left. But I don't think you should burn all the way through. I did that, when I was a regular, and i'm not going to let it happen to another person if I can do something about it."

That's what Moshe had essentially told me when he kicked me out of my first section, what I didn't understand then: just because you can handle it somehow, doesn't mean you have to handle the 'somehow'.

And if you didn't understand that, then I was wrong regarding you.

/

"A bit taller"? *wry smile* Oh, I don't know. In ways, you hid behind my back as much as stood on your shoulders. I did shoulder more responsibility than anyone else of the station, and you did shoulder much of my emotional burden. It's called "working together".

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

We make a good team.

A lot of this is after the fact, at the time I didn't know what my red lines were and again, at the time that was a good thing, but now that I know better where I stand on the issues and how I feel about the whole thing I know I will not be able to handle it again.
I am burned out when it comes to war and war is evil because of many, many endless things, but I'm not naive and know that people, you and my brother and others, have to do what they have to do and for that I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[hagar-972.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of us don't know where are limits are, the first time around. Some of us get lucky enough to have other people catch us before we burn out too much. Which is why not keeping face is important.

And re second paragraph - *salute*.

[ravrhi.livejournal.com]

Sometimes the money we receive isn't worth the price that we pay. If you're not ready to go back- if you are never ready to go back- that is okay. Stress and grief effect us all differently and I wish you the best, and send you my virtual arms for hugs.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Thank you very much.

[djvande.livejournal.com]

Mel- I admire you ability to just say "no". Sometimes I wish I could channel some of your political/IDF views into Nurit. But anyhow, I know she's a different person, with different experiences, and its not my place . . .