Not Anonymous

even if you're not eating meat, other people are. it's still going to be packaged and processed and the methods aren't going to change if only you quit eating meat.

being a hypocrite is part of the human condition. we're ALL hypocrites - though only few of us have the stones to admit it :P

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True, but wouldn't I have some integrity left if I didn't eat meat despite the fact that others eat meat?

And thank you :)

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to me, it's about priorities. i would rather be content in knowing that i am eating well-balanced, delicious food (as it has been proven that meats contain many wonderfully nutritive components) rather than depriving myself of something good for me that I enjoy for the sake of making no discernible difference than being able to show other people that i care.

well, i DO care, and if people can't see that, then that's their own problem and i don't have time to deal with their bullshit anyways. i care a great deal about a great many things, and since i have neither the time nor the energy to lead a Great Movement i choose NOT to care about the world's opinion of little me :)

i mean, hell, do what you want - but take care to think about the motivations of your reasonings.

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One person cutting out a lifetime of consumption can make a difference.

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personally, i don't believe that. i'm not saying this to piss you off or start a debate - it's just how i feel.

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I understand that's how you feel. I guess I just don't get how people going vegetarian doesn't equal fewer animals being killed. Supply has to meet demand--if it exceeds it, they lose money.

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well, if there was a massive movement - hundreds or thousands of people getting in contact, mobilizing, and taking a stand - it may make a difference. i'm sure people have tried. it's just hard to change the system. as much as i might not like how things work and what society dictates, i do my best to live with it and often ignore it in order to lead a simple, happy life - one not consumed with guilt over things i alone cannot change.

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There are a lot of things I can't change on a massive scale--but it doesn't mean it would be right for me to participate in them. I myself can't end racism, but that doesn't mean I might as well participate in it since I can't do anything about it. Doesn't mean I should ignore it and say "oh well, can't change it."

Don't get me wrong--I'm not a vegetarian myself. So I'm not trying to act like I'm perfect. There are plenty of things I do that I shouldn't. But I can't pretend that just because I'm only one person, my actions don't have consequences, either.

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oh, actions definitely have consequences - that's why i believe so strongly in morality and standing up for what you believe in. to me, it's just a question of scale.

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Yay, civilized debate!

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tis so unusual on teh intarwebs ;)

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*nods* I understand that, and it's very subjective as to what matters most to different people.

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Damn, I'm probably too late in the discussion (again), but I just wanted to say I agree with you, I mean, giving up on the idea of making a difference just by changing your own actions, because everybody else is "doing it anyways".. Hell, one person can make a difference! and have throughout history.. (take Rosa Parks for example...)

"You know, if
one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and
they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement..." :)

Sorry, I'm tired..

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ex-yellowsna67.livejournal.com

and I don't agree with you saying meat contains necessary nutrients. I won't get into it here, but meat has some things I'd prefer not to have in my bod.

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*sigh* I'm going to be shouted at for this.

The only "bad things" in meat are antibiotics and the likes, which some farmers give their living stock. Some - you can definitely find meat and other animal produce without them.

Fatty acids, which meat has, aren't bad. If you're eat a large steak each day, maybe. Not with a more moderate consumption.

All the fat-soluble vitamins are digested much, much better when from an animal nutritional source, rather than vegy. Also some of the water-soluble ones, like B12. You do know that all veggies should do a blood screen every three months to make sure your B12 levels aren't too low, right?

And, iron, which is an issue for women. Do you know how much seasame and the likes you need to eat in order to substitute for a regular consumption of meat?

In short, meat is only unhealthy if consumed in excess, or if the source is bad. And if you have the same amout of the same nutrient in meat, and in a veggie dish, the digestive system would absorb more from the meat source - and if it's another mammal, and not just another animal, it's the best absorbance. That's just the way it is.

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I know what you mean. I hate that I eat meat. I was vegetarian for six months about a year ago, and I feel so weak that I went back to meat just because it was easier.

I don't think there's anything wrong with killing an animal for food. I despise the WAY we kill them, the horrendous living conditions we put them through on factory farms. I despise how rain forests are cut down to grow enough grain to feed the animals on those farms--grain that itself could feed every hungry person in the world instead. I know all this and yet I still consume meat. I feel guilty every time--have ever since I was veggie for a while--but I do it anyway. And I do despise that about myself.

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gonzo21.livejournal.com

I eat meat, but I do so in the full and stark awareness of what and where it comes from. I live in a farming community. When I can, I eat meat from more humane sources. But not always.

And yes, it's a moral issue. In my case, if I didn't eat meat, my health would suffer. So. I eat meat.

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Actually, the Dalai Lama eats meat once a month or so, because he got very sick when he didn't, and besides they don't have much to eat in tibet as it is, especially at winter, so they use Yack's milk , meat, skin and bones, but they use it all, leave nothing spare and they respect and appreciate what it has given them and don't take more than they need. (much like the native americans relationship was with the buffalo..)
That's just the thing, I'm a veggie myself, and I try to be as aware as I can to the animal products I buy..(i.e free range eggs, organic dairy products (mostly goat and sheep's since I'm Lactose intolerant..))..
But what bothers me most is the way, the horrid inhumane conditions cattle is being treated in massive corporations.. Not to mention what the final product is like, with tons of chemicals, preservatives and antibiotics...

And, you live in a farming community? you bastard.. :)
(Can I join?..)

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I was wondering when you catch onto the Scotsman :)

I too would like to live in a farming community... I think the "Gang" should start one and everyone in a while we should seperate in order to spread our superior gene, because pretty soon Hagar and Tami will invent a pathogen that will eliminate man kind MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

*cough* ahem... heh, I seem to have gotten carried away there ;P

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LOL :D

(Oh, and, you know me too well.. :) )

Darn it, I miss you.. :)

*hug*

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Hey, i've been advocating communical living for years!

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schniff.livejournal.com

How long is it then till you're ready to move out? =)

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Oh, blah, LJ decided to put my comment as a general comment ot Mel's entry instead of to your comment:

Depending on the cost of living. As a first-year M.Sc. student, i'm going to have about 2,000 NIS per months, maybe up to 2,400. Even up to 3,000, if I get TA (מתרגלת).

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gonzo21.livejournal.com

Oh, I didn't know that about the Dalai Lama. Interesting.

It does always strike me, being an archaeologist, how the human animal is perfectly evolved to exist best on a diet that our hunter-gatherer ancestors would have bad, which is to say, the diet that we've had for the longest period of our species existance. Fruit, nuts, meat, fish, etc.

And yeah, god, intensively farmed meat. Forutnately in the UK, or at least here in Scotland, we don't have much of that. Our meat is from animals that have big fields to live in, natural diets, and relatively minimal chemical additives. If i Lived in America... I would be very very cautious of their farmed red meat. Just with, all the nasty chemicals in.

And yup, I live in rural highland scotland. I even have my own chickens. Fresh free range eggs. Yum. :)

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You're an Archaeologist? Cool!!

Stop it, You're making me long again.. Ah, Scotland.. The highlands and the green hills, and sheep everywhere.. And the fresh air..and fine ales..

We actually used to have three hens in our backyard, some while ago (about 6-7 years ago..) we used to let them walk about the garden every day, and at night they would go back to the henhouse to sleep (they were pretty clever, I don't care what they say..), and we had fresh eggs every day, it was nice..
Goodness, what am I going on about? I'm sorry, it's the hour and tiredness, I should get to bed.. :)

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Why don't you two just friend each other already ;)

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gonzo21.livejournal.com

I was an archaeologist. That's what my degree is in. I'm not anymore.

And yes, I quite agree, chickens are quite smart.

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I use Colgate and Always and the rest of them animal-testing brands; and i'm an ideological meat-eater, because yeah, B12 and iron? And if a serving of meat and a serving of none-meat have the same amount of a certain nutrient, your body will absorb more from the meat source compared to the vegi.

If you're not going to eat meat because animals are being used, cut out non-organic eggs and diary too: animals are being used pretty terribly there, too.

"My people first"? It can mean that I would have my people's lives over the other people's well-being. And it could also mean that I would rather have my people well-fed, than the other people - what? Do you think they'd be much happier in the wild, where half the young will die, and the adults would have parasites and whatnot?

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lifeofresearch.livejournal.com

I am a vegetarian but two of my four vehicles have leather seats. Also, I have leather shoes. My point is you have to pick your issues. I also loved meat but quitting was easy. In the last nine years I have quit having hair on my head which saves water and energy washing and drying it. I have quit eating meat and my skin condition has improved. If you are interested in becoming a vegetarian let me know I can help. You can't simply eliminate meat you have to get protein from other sources.

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tamara-russo.livejournal.com

We all do what we can - getting Shampoo, soap and moisturizer that's from a company who doesn't do tests on animals is something - most people don't even do that. I don't eat mammals and bird for almost five years now, but I do eat fish and sea-food (though I do it quite rarely), and I too feel like a hypocrite, but unless we will all live in a cottage in the woods, growing our own food and hunting our meat (like animals) we will always have something to feel guilty about. I fell guilty all the time, but I still drive a car, use electricity, wear leather boots (again, I buy leather shoes very rarely), and I feel guilty. We all decide what are our priorities, and if you fell guilty do what I did - re-think your priorities. There's a chance they haven't changed, but if they have, you can change your behavior. It only takes a second to say - O.K., I don't eat meat anymore. It takes a while to convince everyone else you're serious, but it'll happen, and if your choice remains to eat meat, that O.K. too. Don't feel bad (easy to say, I know), just be honest with yourself.

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mizzpyx.livejournal.com

Everyone's a hypocrite. I'm a hypocrite- I don't eat meat, for primarily ideological reasons, but I do eat fish, even though the same ideology leads me to conclude that I really shouldn't. But I still do. It makes my life easier, it's handy, it's full of omega 3 oils, and damnit but it tastes good.
I think that everyone finds the level that they're comfy with. For some people it's veganism. I can't do that, not at this stage in my life- i don't have the time to devote to putting enough effort into my diet to allow me to be vegan without losing way too much weight again. I'm in college, I'm busy, and I've other things to worry about. So I eat veggies, dairy, and fish. my parentseat meat, but they always make sure it's organic, free range, and fairly traded if possible. In a way, they're doing better than me on the morality stakes, since I don't always make sure that the food I eat is organic and fairly traded. It's not practical for me.

So what I'm saying is- find a level that works for you, that is a decent compromise between ideology and practicality. And don't worry about being a hypcrite. I mean, who isn't, really?

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That's what I try to do.
I just gotta be on an honest level with myself and figure out my priorities.

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Oh, BTW where can I make an icon like your for myself?

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mizzpyx.livejournal.com

ya know I haven't a clue where I found the maker thingie. I think it might be in this history of another computer.. I'll take a look about, k?

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mizzpyx.livejournal.com

google is god.
http://www.tektek.org/dream/ is where the icon maker lives :)

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ex-yellowsna67.livejournal.com

because it's hard. I know from experience. I became a vegetarian at 17, and I never looked back. but it hasn't been easy, with my family members all unsupportive. if you became a vegetarian, I won't lie--you would get teased. I do, constantly. people saying, "mmmm. juicy hamburger." being a vegetarian makes you stand out. and the last thing I needed was another thing that made me different. but yeah, I strive for an ideal.

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