Angel vs. Spike

[eumelia]

I didn't go to the annual spring time con “Olamot”, which was a shame, since there were supposed to be awesome “A decade to Buffy” things going on, but visiting sister who I see about one a year trumps “Buffy”.
*shrug8 Just the way it goes.

But I missed out on my semi-annual “Angel is better than Spike” clash with the fankids, I generally get into a discussion of that sort with the younger generation of fans, I consider myself Old-school, seeing as I saw all the episodes on TV before they came to DVD and all that.
I tend to have more philosophical discussions regarding “Buffy” with fellow Old-schoolers, which can also breakdown to “Angel vs Spike”, but with the fankids I always end up feeling old.
Very old.

Let's forget the superficial things that may or may not make the “good” vampires attractive, because looks really are the last thing that I'm gonna talk about. If someone goes “He's better looking that him” and all that... it's really meaningless, because when it comes to looks, it's all very personal and has to do with taste.
No, my argument is that “Angel is better than Spike” comes down to merit.
Angel may be a little less charming than Spike in his en-souled version, but people, can we not see that all Spike has ever done was try to be like Angel, in all his incarnations.

Then again Angel presents himself as a Hero, while Spike is the Anti-Hero, though in my mind Spike never managed to do that properly because he always felt inferior to the actual “Heroes”, one only needs to view his relationship with Buffy and Angel to see.
He will willingly submit to Buffy, Angel will beat him up... in both instances Spike submits, because he's a sub at heart (a bigger dom than Angel you'll be hard to find, such is his anal retentiveness).

To me Spike is the “Rebel Without a Cause”, rebelling against Authority (Angel) and doing his best to screw with it (Buffy). And thus will in the roles they have chosen for themselves will always butt heads, but the “Rebel” always wishes he had as much power as the “Authority”.
As readers (“viewers”) we will generally go with Spike because he's the Underdog, and we like the Underdog more than the tight-assed Hero, who sometimes seems to be doing things for no reason other than for pure altruism, how boring, right?

Spike to me will just always be in Angel's shadow, the only thing he managed to do better than Angel was in being pro-active when it came to what he wanted, but still, Angel will always be the better Hero and the better Villain.
Spike is no match to Angelus, sorry it's just that when it megalomaniac psychopath vs. bitter soiopath... the psycho is going to win.
And Angel will always be the better Hero because Catholic guilt will always trump the CoE.

I'd like to expand on the issues that make Angel and Spike different, but not today... also there's so much one can talk about the Greek Tragedy that is Angel and Spike's relationships.

Comments

[stateofwonder.livejournal.com]

I'm an "old school" fan of Buffy (I'm not involved in the fandom at all, but it's the only show I've watched start to finish), but never got into Angel. To me, even though it's pretty damn clear that Spike tries to emulate Angel in a lot of ways and pretty much ends up failing (no one can ever be as deep and angsty and serious as Angel), I never liked Angel. Spike is a bit of a pathetic guy, but at least he has a great sense of humour about it. I like that Spike fucks up and that he feels sorry for himself, rather than Angel's soul-crushing guilt, which is in a category all on its own. That he is neither a great Hero, nor a great Villain. In my mind, that makes him so much more real and appealing.

I'm certainly not arguing with the fact that Angel is a more 'successful' vampire, both with and without a soul. But when it comes to a character I'd rather engage with and think about, Spike wins hands down. I guess the argument depends on what you mean by who is 'better'. You might be arguing based on power while others are arguing based on appeal to the reader. Yeah, Angel could beat Spike's ass any day. Still doesn't mean I'd want to devote any more screen time to the guy.

I also prefer Spike's gritty, dirty style to Angel's romantic tortured Hero shtick, though obviously that's a personal preference. Boring is right.

[cziganybriella.livejournal.com]

I'm really pretentious about Buffy. Not only did I see every episode on TV but I saw the original movie in theaters.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Wow, kudos.
You trumped me with the movie (only seen on DVD).