Gender Schmender
Jun. 14th, 2006 01:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
eumeliaDisclaimer: This post was inspired by this post over at ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
hagar_972 , who in turn was inspired by this post over at nurint which started a really big discussion.
Seriously look at the title.
That's what I think about gender.
Does that mean I don't conform to the basic ideas society has about gender identity, sure I do, same as I conform to the basic idea society has about sexual identity. At least to a certain extent.
Does that mean I agree with it?
Hell no.
Does that mean I am conforming against my will?
Hmmm, maybe? Not conforming sure makes life a whole lot more difficult, and who wants their life more difficult than it already is? Well, me just a little; I wouldn't be going around wearing political buttons and shaving my head to a buzz if I totally conformed to society's idea of a young twenty something woman is.
Then again I could be totally wrong, what is the first thing that pops to mind when you think young twenty something woman? For me, well it's me and my other female friends, but we're all so different, in extreme ways even, but everyone of us is a twenty something young woman who cannot really be mistaken for something else.
What makes me a Woman? Or, since I young and twenty something, a Girl?
Most of the time I don't think about it, I am what I am, it really doesn't matter.
Who it does matter to is to the people who perceive me and it very much does matter to me how I am perceived.
When I was in high school I was in a poetry writing group (many on my f-list know which one I'm talking about) and the group "director", I suppose would be a good word, at the time said something very true when us wishy washy poetry types were talking about identity.
He said (and I paraphrase) - I'm not who I think I am; I'm who I think you think I am.
I still think there is truth in that statement, we are how other people perceive us to be - and so we are boxed into neat little categories of "young woman", "child", "boy" and if we're pushing the envelope a little "transgender", "boi", "grrl"... you get the picture.
And again, no matter how much we push the envelope we are still judged by these perceptions, simply by declaring that we are not exactly how you perceive us to be, because then people switch the label in their head and then their reactions suits the label.
The fact that I've corrected the person from viewing me in a certain way, doesn't change the fact that I now have a different label with which I am perceived.
Is that better or worse?
To identify as a woman or a man, one takes a considerable risk, there are various expectations one must adhere to when one ID's in the binary and woe be it to someone who doesn't conform to these expectations.
And when one decided to consciously shrug off these expectations and ID as something else like Genderqueer. There are expectations from the gender variant as well - they are expected not to conform to any gender, and yet both I know people who are not gender variant and do not conform to these expectations.
I don't think gender is any more complicated than sexuality, but society is still extremely squeaky about gender fluidity.
hagar_972 , who in turn was inspired by this post over at nurint which started a really big discussion.Seriously look at the title.
That's what I think about gender.
Does that mean I don't conform to the basic ideas society has about gender identity, sure I do, same as I conform to the basic idea society has about sexual identity. At least to a certain extent.
Does that mean I agree with it?
Hell no.
Does that mean I am conforming against my will?
Hmmm, maybe? Not conforming sure makes life a whole lot more difficult, and who wants their life more difficult than it already is? Well, me just a little; I wouldn't be going around wearing political buttons and shaving my head to a buzz if I totally conformed to society's idea of a young twenty something woman is.
Then again I could be totally wrong, what is the first thing that pops to mind when you think young twenty something woman? For me, well it's me and my other female friends, but we're all so different, in extreme ways even, but everyone of us is a twenty something young woman who cannot really be mistaken for something else.
What makes me a Woman? Or, since I young and twenty something, a Girl?
Most of the time I don't think about it, I am what I am, it really doesn't matter.
Who it does matter to is to the people who perceive me and it very much does matter to me how I am perceived.
When I was in high school I was in a poetry writing group (many on my f-list know which one I'm talking about) and the group "director", I suppose would be a good word, at the time said something very true when us wishy washy poetry types were talking about identity.
He said (and I paraphrase) - I'm not who I think I am; I'm who I think you think I am.
I still think there is truth in that statement, we are how other people perceive us to be - and so we are boxed into neat little categories of "young woman", "child", "boy" and if we're pushing the envelope a little "transgender", "boi", "grrl"... you get the picture.
And again, no matter how much we push the envelope we are still judged by these perceptions, simply by declaring that we are not exactly how you perceive us to be, because then people switch the label in their head and then their reactions suits the label.
The fact that I've corrected the person from viewing me in a certain way, doesn't change the fact that I now have a different label with which I am perceived.
Is that better or worse?
To identify as a woman or a man, one takes a considerable risk, there are various expectations one must adhere to when one ID's in the binary and woe be it to someone who doesn't conform to these expectations.
And when one decided to consciously shrug off these expectations and ID as something else like Genderqueer. There are expectations from the gender variant as well - they are expected not to conform to any gender, and yet both I know people who are not gender variant and do not conform to these expectations.
I don't think gender is any more complicated than sexuality, but society is still extremely squeaky about gender fluidity.
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no subject
Date: 2006-06-14 05:43 pm (UTC)Is that better or worse?"
Suggesting a slightly different angle: we need names to call things. Names, inevitably, have semantic fields; they're supposed to have semantic fields. If you don't like the semantic field of the name (label) associated with you, then either change the name ("boi") or redefine the semantic field. (Harder, 'cause it's a society/collective thing.)
But we need language to think in, so 'labels' for themselves are all evil. It's more the way each label is used.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-14 05:51 pm (UTC)By those of my friends who know,
Date: 2006-06-14 07:29 pm (UTC)Defining yourself, as amorphilly as the definition may be, is hard enough. Sharing it with the world is sometimes too much.
Re: By those of my friends who know,
Date: 2006-06-15 06:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-15 06:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-15 08:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-15 09:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-15 09:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-15 09:46 am (UTC)Here's 100 NIS. Buy me a copy too.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-15 11:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-15 03:30 pm (UTC)- Gender Trouble: Feminism and the Subversion of Identity. Thinking Gender. New York & London: Routledge, 1990
- Bodies that Matter: On the Discursive Limits of "Sex". New York & London:Routledge, 1993 (Not all of it is relevant to this discussion, but it's all interesting.)
- Excitable Speech: A Politics of the Performative. New York & Routledge, 1997 (Very relevant)
Her book about Antigone - that was translated - touches the issue to some extent. If you enjoy her writing, it's very nice. You can also search the web for articles about "Queer theory".
no subject
Date: 2006-06-15 05:29 pm (UTC)Which books of hers do you have, so that I may borrow, when I come back, with your permission of course. :)
no subject
Date: 2006-06-15 08:59 am (UTC)I understand what you're saying here, it's also the main reason for Mel and my original misunderstanding: She chooses door number one, I choose door number two.
Maybe it's because I just woke up (insomnia, for those of you who don't know), but I can't put my finger on just why I think my way is better than your way. I'd love to have that discussion sometime.
no subject
Date: 2006-06-14 08:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-06-14 10:57 pm (UTC)The problem society has with gender, as far as I can tell, is equating it with sex. And sex tends to be much less fluid than gender. Besides, it's tedious to change the pronouns you use to refer to a person on a daily basis... (I know a person that does, in fact, refers to hirself differently language-genderly wise pretty much every day, and it does get confusing and leaves people unsure of what the "correct" way would be to talk to hir without accidentlly offending hir. Especially since there's no "hir" in Hebrew...)
no subject
Date: 2006-06-15 05:31 pm (UTC)Just being annoying ;P
no subject
Date: 2006-06-16 10:47 pm (UTC)Anyway, this post made me really think about gender fluidity and I thought of tribes in Africa. When you see pictures of men and women, they kinda look the same, except for, you guessed it, slightly different equipment! The women generally have identical (short) hair as the men, they don't wear shirts and it doesn't seem to even matter that their breasts are bigger. Granted, this is a gross generalization, as men and women have specific duties in the tribe, but it made me begin to think about how westernized society did a lot in the labeling department....
PS. i love that quote that your teacher made. so true!