Things that still manage to surprise me

[eumelia]

This morning I got an apology from a class-mate.

I was honestly speechless.

Last week in class, Intro to Anthropology Exercise, in which spirits rose because were were discussing polygamy, marriage and all that.
The article we read had a description of a polygamous household of the Tib [sp?] tribe in an Anfircan country that may or may not still exist - the article is from the late 50's if I'm not mistaken - in which the Wives (who call each other Sister) tell the anthropologist that they take care of each other, help each other out with their children.
The first wife is "given" to the husband by her father, all the other consequent wives the First Wife choses.

I'm like, human commodification, not so different from traditional marriages in Judaism (well, contemporary ones in these parts, the woman doesn't even get to look at the Ketubah - marriage contract).

Any way - I was shocked that so many of my female class-mates said that they were really convinced by the women living in a polygamous house-hold, that they wouldn't mind having that kind of sisterhood.

In my mind I'm went: OMG! WHAT?!?! Do you not see!?!?

What I said was: Hello, human commodification!
And some guy replied: You're really exaggerating! You know that's what they say about Marriage in Judaism?
I replied: Yes, that's why a bride costs 2 cents (2 prutot), because she isn't being bought!

He went on a bit about how what marriage was and wasn't, while I'm being called out on being waaaaaay radical about marriage.

Bullshit, of course.

Any way, today the guy with whom I argued last week apologized for his attitude and for being over aggressive.

See me be gobsmacked!

I told a friend about this this morning and she said don't let it get it out that men who behave nicely make you speechless.
Funny, haha.
I'm just not used to twenty-something men (sometimes boys) to actually take responsibility for stuff said in class.
No doubt he thought he was doing the gentlemanly thing, which I'm cool with when it is sans condescension and patronising (I can be a gentleman too!) - but wow, it was just so weird.

Regardless, it's weird being in this class, where I feel I'm gaining new perspective! But damn am I ahead of the class when it comes to theory and critical thought. I'm not bragging here - I'm a bloody Third Year taking an intro class... *sigh* Well, that's the cake I baked from the eggs that I broke.

Comments

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

two unrelated things,

I don't think we can actually say how these women in this tribe felt. Quite possibly some felt ok with it, some happy, some sad, some angry and some something else altogether. I assume it was not asked in the article. And if it was asked, how reliable would the answer be? (How much about alternatives did the wives know, how free did they feel to communicate their ideas and feelings with the researcher? How easy would it be to find a shared vocabulary).
Yes, I agree it is a marriage-form quite suitably labelled by the word commodification, but that is often not the whole story. It is a perspective that is important to keep in mind, but it shouldn't cloud over a range of other questions the situation gives rise to.

Secondly, concerning the apology you got. It reminds me of 1 situation during highschool where I had gotten in a very heated argument with some boys and I had eventually stormed out of class. The boys had responded to a television program about a woman telling about a rape experience who explained she found men frightening, with very insulting remarks (She just needs a fuck, if I stick mine in she will beg for more, look at her big niggerlips). For some reasons the stupid teachers all told me it was just a hard age for boys and I should be the wise one and not mind. At the end the teacher let us all write an essay about what had happened. She then asked me to read it out load. After that class 1 of the boys came to me apologizing and saying he hadn't all meant it and certainly had not want to upset me.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Of course it's not the whole story, we don't have the complete story, but that wasn't my point, I was just trying to give some background info.
Your point stands, regardless.

I feel it's a rare thing that these boys/guys/young men come to apologize, it seems to me that there's this feeling of entitlement that of course their perspective is the right and only one. Especially in classroom situation.

[stateofwonder.livejournal.com]

First of all: holy crap guy apologizing!! I've never seen anything like that, to be honest, so that's pretty amazing! I would have definitely been speechless as well!!

Second, I haven't read the article in question so I can't speak to the specifics, but I do think it's important to keep in mind that marriage isn't necessarily the most important social bond around. We tend to really be of the mindset that marriage that isn't a love marriage between two people isn't valid, but it seem to me that in this scenario, there is a woman with agency (first wife is the one choosing the other wives, not the husband), and there might be really important social bonds formed between these women. In this kind of situation where women are operating a patriarchal system, there are often ways for them to subvert their submissive position by forming allegiances with other women, and it sounds like this might be a case of that happening.

It also creates lovely opportunities for sexy-times between women, which is well documented in many polygamous societies but not usually discussed in the "official" anthro texts!

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Everything you're saying about marriage etc... I know, I'm aware, I was giving one perspective (which is pretty common I think) and people were all over me.

The fact that he apologized... dude.

(I just wanted to give background for the discussion so that it wouldn't just hang there).

[stateofwonder.livejournal.com]

Ok. I figured you knew, it's just that I'm pretty sensitive to portrayals of African women as being without agency, and human commodification is a pretty strong term.

You class sounds kinda bizarre!

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Oh! I was actually thinking that when I compared it to Jewish Marriage - I don't think women don't have agency - I just think they're treated like shit.

[lishablog.livejournal.com]

I am consistently shocked by how young Israelis don't get how bad marriage is handled in this country. Or how they don't get the problem of the way that the official Jewish religious institutions treat women in general. I'm bowled over by how they can think that it's OK to treat women like a second-class citizen, and then turn around and say that women aren't at any disadvantage in professional or public life here.

Women ARE a commodity here while we pretend that it's not so, so why would a young Israeli women think it was bad to be commodified in a place where at least it appears that she'll have a community to share her commodification with?