"Our Queers are better than your Queers"

[eumelia]

I've been trying to find a way to write coherently about this subject for the past couple days, I hope I manage to make my point without confusing the hell out of you, dear readers.

Iran is a religious dictatorship. Ahmadinejad has bad PR. Iran is trying to make itself a power house in the Middle East.
Iran's treatment of women leaves much to be desired.
Ahmadinejad has gone on the record saying that Iran doesn't have homosexuals.
All these are facts.

And you know what? I don't care.
I don't care that there are worse places in the world.
Because if that's the kind of narration Israel is using in order to make itself look better... it kind of sucks.

Israel's Foreign Ministry is overseeing a new public relations campaign in which the gay LGBT community is recruited. This PR campaign is going to be used to discredit Iran through it's human rights violations.

Dude... WTF?

Beyond the callous use of an underprivileged minority in order to publicly discredit a different nation, it's a blatant attempt to deflect Israel's own human rights violations.

I'll be the first to admit, my life as a white, Jewish, able bodied cis-woman of the middle-class* in Israel is pretty good.
And in my little cultural Niche of Tel-Aviv Uni and the City itself, being a Queer isn't so bad.
I mean, I can't really complain about same-sex marriage as there is no such thing as civil marriages or union in Israel.
Sure there are common-law marriages and couples un-interested (or can't due to various issues) in marrying through the religious institutions can sign fiscal agreements or fly to countries in which you can marry though civil ceremonies - hetero couples like Cypres as it is close and cheap, at the moment the only country in which same-sex couples can have their marriage sort of recognised in Israel is Canada.
Very convenient.
There is precedent when it comes to the adoption of kids in same sex families, which again, is encouraging and quite awesome.

I suppose I should point out that the above is basically available to Israeli-Jews.

Being a heterosexual couple made out of an Arab and Jew is difficult enough and life threatening. Being a same-sex couple made out of an Arab and a Jew can be a death sentence... for both parties.
And that's within Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East.
There are Palestinian queer organisations like ASWAT, which are awesome, co-founder Rouda Morcos is one of the most inspiring women I've ever had the privilege to meet.
ASWAT criticises both Israeli and Palestinian societies, but the underlying thought is that the Palestinians society as a whole is oppressed and that in order for LGBT rights to be advanced within Palestinian (and the other Arab societies in Israel and the Occupied territories) the Occupation must end.

Is life better for Queers within Israel proper than beyond the Green Line and in our neighbouring countries? Yes, big and resounding, yes, life is better.

However, that just exemplifies the issue of Israel's own complicity in the situation in the West Bank and Gaza.

To target Iran in order to deflect Israel's own crimes is pathetic.
Yes, yes it is.

Especially when the current government will probably do next to nothing to promote LGBT rights within Israel itself, if anything there will probably be the strengthening of the religious establishment over the next couple of years.

*Did I miss anything in the privilege disclosure?

Comments

[vashtan.livejournal.com]

Just dropping in to say I really enjoy your posts on the Israel/Middle East GLBTQ issues.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I'm glad someone is! I enjoy writing them, but I get so effing pissed off that sometimes I feel I'm failing to get my point across 'cause I'm too emotional.

[vashtan.livejournal.com]

Of course - I'd get pissed off hugely myself. I've been reading articles written about the issue, and i'm in so many camps regarding to occupation, and I have my own national hang-ups, so for me all this is fascinating stuff coming from somebody much much closer to the scene.

(to explain, I'm German - we have this issue going on between being ostracised/peer pressured to NEVER criticise Israel, but on the other hand there *is* the occupation, and our national reflex is to stand with the Palestinians because of those deplorable living conditions. So, cultural reflexes, collective guilt and humanitarian awareness makes the whole thing an interesting issue to think through/watch/follow for me).

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

That certainly is complicated.

The situation at home is of course also complicated. I get really pissed off when people tell me that I hate my country because I criticise it and that I should be grateful I have a place to live. Which I am of course, grateful that is that I have roof over my head and that I'm part of the most privileged strata ethnically speaking.
Still, doesn't mean everything is peachy keen and it's so bloody irritating that the Oppression Olympics are happening on the international level! Look, look they're worse oppressors than we are! *GAG*.

[lilacsigil.livejournal.com]

"Look! Look! We're better than Iran!" is a downright shitty argument. Yes, of course I'd rather live in Israel than Iran...if I happened to be Israeli. Yes, gay rights are important, but they're one part of *human* rights.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Yes yes! Exactly, which is why this kind of strategy really irritates me!
As I said, it's just callous manipulation of what actually goes on.

[lifeofresearch.livejournal.com]

Since I live in the US and do not have all the facts I will not comment directly on the subject even though I am a big proponent of equal rights for all people. With that said, you serve as a muse for me many times. This time I am thinking that the GLBT community is used by both sides to make their political point without either side truly caring for the people.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

*nods*
I mean, no doubt there will be plenty LGBT folk speaking about how good things are for them in Israel and how far Israel has come since the 80's in (which sodomy laws were still in place and homosexuality was still in the DSM).
But to use that in order to create positive PR and deflect criticism of human rights violations is just frustrating.

[whereisjoy.livejournal.com]

Mel, I'm so glad that Amy suggested we be friends. you're thinking on this issue (as well the observations on how Israel deals with the holocaust) are pretty much exactly my own. It's really nice to hear someone else saying that.

As you say, so much of Israeli society deals with the queer issue by just saying "hey, we're better than you." I know that most of my experience with Israeli society is from W. Jerusalem (and is very limited), but dude, the only thing that religious leaders in that city can agree on is that beating up queer folks is pretty awesome. And that's just pathetic.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Glad to know my rants make someone feel better.

Yeah, Tel-Aviv and and parts of its close suburbs are really Gay friendly to the point where it's not unusual to hear people call TA "the State of Tel Aviv", which is kind of sad when you think about what it means about the rest of the country.
Yeah, I think Jerusalem was one a whole lot more diverse and accepting than it used to be.

Will you be attending the Jerusalem Pride Parade in June (no actual date yet alas. The one in Tel Aviv is on the 12th of June).

[whereisjoy.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping to! I've been trying to for the last three years, but something always stops me. Hopefully not this time. But if you hear of a date, tell me please.

[whereisjoy.livejournal.com]

sweet user pic, by the way.

[thecityofdis.livejournal.com]

at the moment the only country in which same-sex couples can have their marriage sort of recognised in Israel is Canada.

Wait, what? What about Spain? South Africa? Nepal? My understanding was that Israel recognized any civil marriages performed outside the country. Wtf?!

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

As far as I'm aware only Canadian marriages are recognised at the moment.

[nurint.livejournal.com]

Are you sure about that? I thought Canada was used because it was the only country that married (same sex) foreigners.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

If that's the case then I stand corrected, still doesn't change my point...

[nurint.livejournal.com]

Really? You don't have a Nepal citizenship? That's a shame...
Oh, and I whole heartedly agree with your point.

[jesuisgringoire.livejournal.com]

Nepal?!?

*wikis frantically*

egad! I knew I loved Nepalese people. I just went to a Nepalese new year party with a very cute (and very straight *sigh*) boy, and fell slightly in love. this just sealed the deal.

[thecityofdis.livejournal.com]

I highly recommend visiting if you ever get the opportunity. It's breathtaking, and certainly one of the most beautiful places I think I'll ever get to see in my lifetime.

[jesuisgringoire.livejournal.com]

I've also been obsessed with that region's culture and philosophy for years now. I'm a nursing student...once I graduate I'm totally going to have to look up red cross (red vajra?) type opportunities in Nepal. one of the only cultures I can think of where people suddenly respect you more instead of less when they find out you're a vegetarian. really there's no reason for me not to go o_O

[stateofwonder.livejournal.com]

*Ciswoman :)

Yeah, the argument of "you queers have it better here than other places, so shut the hell up" really doesn't wash at all! Just because it's better doesn't make it right or fair.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Right! Will edit accordingly :)

It's not even "shut the hell up", it's asking the community to tell people that Israel is a great place to live 'cause it's so liberal and open.
Which is true.
In Tel Aviv and if you're Jewish... most other places are not as tolerant towards "alternative" sexualities and I don't think I need to mention the anti-Arab racism that's systemic.

[mao4269.livejournal.com]

It's bad enough that the Israeli government is making the lame argument (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-how-to-spot-a-lame-lame-argument-1667373.html) that because someone else is doing something bad nobody should care that it is, too. But Israel hasn't just used other countries' homophobia to deflect attention from its own human rights abuses; it has a long history of benefiting from homophobia (by using the threat of outing to blackmail Palestinians into becoming informants) (http://www.forward.com/articles/1125/). In doing so, it's helped add to Palestinian homophobia by creating an association between gays and informants. I'd certainly agree that the Israeli government is hypocritical for pointing the finger at other governments' human rights abuses while ignoring its own. Even more glaring to me, however, is the hypocrisy of claiming to be gay-friendly while perpetuating homophobia.

[shelestel.livejournal.com]

!

[mao4269.livejournal.com]

Care to clarify?

[shelestel.livejournal.com]

That was re: second link

[mao4269.livejournal.com]

Ah, ok.

[hemlock-sholes.livejournal.com]

I can just imagine the following conversation in Shabak headquarters:
Moshe : "Shmuel! A bomb has just gone off in Tel Aviv and killed 20 people! Didn't you say you had inside information to warn us ahead of time?"

Shmuel : "Yes, boss, I did. But then I realized the guy was gay and figured it wasn't right to use him that way anymore"

Moshe : "Oh, OK then. Couldn't be helped"

If only the sinless are allowed to cast stones, then no one can do anything.
Is Israel also hypocritical for sending aid to other countries when they have earthquakes while people are homeless in Israel?
Is Israel hypocritical for aiding Israeli tourists who have run afoul of foreign law enforcement when there are people who have legal problems in Israel?

You can't (and shouldn't) wait to solve all your own problems before acting.

[mao4269.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying that Intelligence should stop using informants who they have on the payroll. What I'm saying is that Intelligence should stop gaining informants by blackmailing people with the threat of outing them (knowing full well that their likely to be killed if you do so), stop refusing to pay gay informants (because, with the blackmail factor, they don't have to) while they do pay straight ones, etc.

As for your second point, I'm all for countries criticizing human rights abuses elsewhere while still acknowledging their own failures. My problem is with countries refusing to acknowledge their own failures and deflecting attention on them by focusing on human rights abuses elsewhere. I'll also a fan of countries being called out for doing the latter. If Israel called Iran (or any of the multiple other countries for which this is applicable) out for expressing concern about human rights abuses in the Occupied Territories while committing human rights abuses of its own, I would be pleased. But that's not what Israel is doing with this campaign.

[hemlock-sholes.livejournal.com]

[slightly sarcastic]
With today's economic situation, maybe all informants should get a raise?
Why shouldn't the Israeli tax payer over pay informants?
[/end slightly sarcastic]

So you are only allowed to criticize someone else if you do so while admitting your own crimes? This sounds ... nice.
It also sounds appropriate for university level debates, not real life diplomatic conflict.

[mao4269.livejournal.com]

I'm not suggesting that "all informants should get a raise". Apparently I wasn't clear enough, however, about the fact that Israel is effectively telling gay Palestinians that if they don't serve as informants they'll be killed whereas straight Palestinians aren't put in that position. My point wasn't about the money persay but Israel's exploitation of homophobia.

It's one thing if State A criticize State B without admitting its own problems. It's another thing when State B happens to both be the strongest critic of State A and far from the only eggregious perpetrator of the thing that State A is criticizing it for. In the latter case, it's not unreasonable to assume that the criticism by State A is a deflection. If Israel were actually concerned with GLBT rights it would criticize Iraq (http://thinkprogress.org/2009/04/21/iraq-militias-glue/), Nigeria, etc., not to mention cease actively exploiting, and thereby perpetuating, homophobia in the Occupied Territories. It's not. Instead, it's exploiting the homophobia in Iran to try to get the international community on its side. And just like Israel's exploitation of homophobia in the Occupied Territories has contributed to the Palestinian perception that anyone queer must be a collaborator and thereby perpetuated the homophobia there, Israe'ls Iran campaign is likely to wind up hurting queer people in Iran even more than the homophobia there already does.

[hemlock-sholes.livejournal.com]

You know, it's not always about you.

Israel is attacking Iran on multiple (non-military) fronts. One of these fronts is human rights.

Whether Israel is loving towards LGBT people or not is not the point.

Certainly Israel is not doing this in order to deflect from it's own crimes.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

You know, it's not always about you.
It is, because I live here and most of what happens on the diplomatic level will affect me eventually.
Also, when in the News a community of which I'm a part of is being used in a PR campaign, then yes, yes it is about me.

Israel is attacking Iran on multiple (non-military) fronts. One of these fronts is human rights.
LGBT rights are human rights, just by the way. The fact that things are better here than in Iran is neither here nor there when in certain places which aren't Tel-Aviv it's just as bad.

Whether Israel is loving towards LGBT people or not is not the point.
It's not about being loved. I don't give a flying f**k about the lack of love or not. As human beings, LGBT folk have a right to the same treatment Straight people do.
You're right, it really isn't the point as no social group should be elevated above another.

Certainly Israel is not doing this in order to deflect from it's own crimes.
That's what it looks like to me. Israel does it's absolute best to not deal with the Siege in Gaza, the systemic appropriation of land in the West Bank, the spreading of the Settlements. All of those are human rights abuses.
Israel, by using an underprivileged (Jewish) population that has it worse in Muslim countries in order to show how mad Muslims have "over there" is being hypocritical, seeing as the way Israel treats its Arab population (the 20% called the "Demographic Problem") isn't that much better.

[hemlock-sholes.livejournal.com]

The fact that things are better here than in Iran is neither here nor there when in certain places which aren't Tel-Aviv it's just as bad.
Really? I wasn't aware that Homosexuals outside Tel Aviv were being publicly executed.

>>Certainly Israel is not doing this in order to deflect from it's own crimes.
That's what it looks like to me

So you're saying that what happened was this:
Politician #1 : "Oh no! The international community is calling us out on X, Y and Z"
Politician #2 : "I know! Lets distract everyone by complaining about Z in Iran!"

Rather that this:
P1 : "Oh no! The international community is not calling Iran out on X or Y"
P2 : "I know, Lets complain about Z in Iran too! Z is big news there"
P3 : "Hmmm... Z is better in Israel than in Iran. Let's say that too"

For X and Y read politics, for Z read LGBT rights.

Which conversation do you think is more likely?

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Many a queer (Jew and not) flee the Periphery to the Centre of the country in order to live their lives without fear of physical threat.
So while, happily, being gay isn't illegal in Israel, for many it is still not livable.
The gay man being beaten up or killed really doesn't care for what reason it's being done, merely that it is.

In terms of common sense, obviously the second conversation is what probably went on... along with "We've got to find a way to make Israel look better".
Israel is very much better than Iran.
If you're Jewish.

[hemlock-sholes.livejournal.com]

Your first point : Abuse by a figure (or figures) of authority, no possibility of legal recourse is the same as abuse by others? Are you sure you're saying that?

Second point : what's the problem with the second conversation?

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I didn't say it was the same. I said that the consequences were the same in those particular parts of the country.
Again, and this is the last time I'm repeating this - being Queer in Israel is better than in Iran. That doesn't mean that life is perfect for the Israeli Queer. I think I made my point very clear on that in my post... I'm not sure why you're having trouble comprehending the point that just because situations are better for certain portions of the human population in one place about "some" human rights, it's all right to disregard them in others.

Did I say there was a problem?

I'm interested in what exactly your issue with my argument is. That I'm criticizing a PR campaign? It seems to me that you're taking umbrage to the fact that I'm taking this personally.

[hemlock-sholes.livejournal.com]

it's a blatant attempt to deflect Israel's own human rights violations. (OP)

Since you agreed with conversation #2, I assume you no longer think that the PR campaign is about Israel's human rights record.

In which case, what is your criticism?

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I didn't agree, I said that in terms of common sense, that hypothetical question is what may have been said. Maybe.
Still blatant deflection.
The two aren't mutually exclusive.