Bombs Away

[eumelia]

Anybody who served (or followed the News) in Lebanon War II knows that Cluster bombs were employed by the IDF over Lebanon.
Those who know what Cluster bombs are all about (if you don't Google it, like everything else to do with weapons there's a lot of info online about it) should be aware that undetonated "bomblets" are either dudds or sleepers that act like land-mines, no need to explain what a land-mine is.

I thought the investigation about the use of Cluster bombs was redundant, because unlike the use of land-mines, which are illegal, Cluster bombs are not illegal under international law.
Just immoral.
And as we all know, morality touches very little on legality when it comes to International law, which is generally about whatever you do inside your own borders is fine, just don't bother us about it.
Seeing as the bombs were dropped outside Israel... well, you know the rest.

Ynet News is defensive about the use of Cluster bombs. And as usual BBC News has no problems with being morally "superior".

I remember when my officer first spoke to me during my service about the weapons in our arsenal and I studied Cluster Bombs I asked her "Isn't this like dropping land-mines on people" - in my 18 year old innocence.
And she said "That's exactly what it is".
"And this is allowed?"
"It's not illegal"
"That's horrible"
"Yes it is"
And we moved on.

Morals and Ethics have very little place in any army. They should.
But they don't.
But so long as no War Time Laws are broken, what difference does it make what the aftermath is.

13:31 - Edited to Add: This what Israel.Indymedia has to say about the Cluster Bomb findings.

13:41 - Edited to Add: Someone else with an opinion - it's in Hebrew over at Friends of George.

Comments

[schemingreader.livejournal.com]

See, on some level you are expecting Israeli society to have the concept of tohar ha-neshek.

Even though I usually try to avoid reading about this stuff, on some level I'm incredibly relieved to read you being upset about this, because it means that there are still Israelis who believe in basic values.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I do expect that because, it's what the IDF had been spouting on for the last 40 years, which everyone knew on some level wasn't true and Lebanon II just brought it home for lots of us.

I'm usually more vitriolic when it comes to the ethics and morality of the IDF, but I can't seem to get the outrage I'm looking for, since the outrage I spouted over the Lebanon War is already written it just seemed like a waste of energy to get riled up again.
Which for me is a good thing, because it means I'm not taking everything the army does personally anymore.

as the evil lawyer chimes in...

[tempestbreaker.livejournal.com]

Ah cluster bombs. My professor for international law, Jules Lobel, we suspect was gearing up for a case involving cluster bombs (With the group "Center for Constitutional Rights", a civil rights/human rights legal advocacy group). As such, he split the class up and assigned us different issues regarding cluster bombs. Other students got questions regarding liability of manufacturers/Israel. My topic was regarding the legality of cluster bombs themselves.
So if you're interested, I have prepared a nice bit of legal analysis regarding cluster bombs. My conclusion? Cluster bombs are not per se illegal. Properly functioning ones are fine. The problem as I'm sure you can guess is that cluster bombs with a propensity to malfunction (20% dud rate or higher) DO violate international law. Hehe. If you're interested/have the time/patience, I'd be more than happy to send you my work to read. Just let me know.
(I aced the course so I'm assuming it's decent legal research :) )

Re: as the evil lawyer chimes in...

[daemonfall.livejournal.com]

I would very much like to see that research :)

Re: as the evil lawyer chimes in...

[tempestbreaker.livejournal.com]

I'd be glad to show you my research. However, you must first let me know that you're not taking anything I have written as legal advice in any shape or form, but rather just the product of an academic exercise. Oh look! I'm covering my butt to avoid any potential liability!
Groovy with that?

Re: as the evil lawyer chimes in...

[daemonfall.livejournal.com]

Sweet :)
I've heard the lecture about war-laws in the officer's school, but I hope to see some more advanced ideas about it.

[daemonfall.livejournal.com]

Moral and ethics have very little place in an army that wishes to win any kind of large scale war. This sad notion was proved over and over in most conflicts I had the displeasure to review. However, POLICE has every need possible for morality and ethical mechanisms. The IDF, for lack of better bodies in israel, fills two roles instead of just one, it fills the role of the Army with it's amount of heavy weaponry and tactics and amoral disposition to life in general.
But this conflicts with the fact that the IDF is also a police of sorts, used to regulate large-scale societies. This duplicity hinders both aspects of the military, and since morality is harder to teach then military disregard for life, that's what you get.