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Edited:
Internet discussions have a way of getting out of hand.
Each side cannot really "hear" what the other is saying so the language has to be very concise and accurate and so often each side comes off quite aggressive and patronising.
In an odd turn of events I found myself defending Israel in a way I never had to before.
It was strange, since I'm not really sure how it came to that since all I did was agree with someone, but that's what you get for forsaking your anonymity on-line.
It really bothers me, it shouldn't since it's just a discussion, but it bothers me that instead of hearing, well reading, what I have to say I'm attacked ad hominem for saying something that the other side doesn't agree on.
It's fine that people don't agree, that's what liberty and freedom of speech is about, disagreeing and, like Voltaire, I will die for that right, but it's not okay to tell someone, who is living in the middle of all the shit that goes on here, that they have no idea what's going on here.
It's a total brush off and disregard to the fact that yes Israelis suffer here too.
The Palestinians have it bad on every single front, yes they do. They're in the shit because of Israel, because of Fatah, because of Hamas, because of many, many reasons.
And yes Israel does horrible things (the Wall, the siege on Gaza, the Settlers in Hebron, the "check points") and they are all humiliating and degrading and dehumanizing.
But Hamas launches quasam rockets on Sderot everyday, children in Palestine are taught not to try and do better than their previous generation, but that their deaths will be glorious.
To those living outside Israel it seems easy, just give back the land and have the borders of 67'. Man do I wish and hope we'll come to that, but the current leaders of the Palestinian Authority aren't interested in those borders, they want more, perhaps all. *shrug* at this point it's moot because the West Bank is scattered with settlements I'd be happy to see gone, because that land really isn't Israel's.
I guess what I'm trying to say is the situation ain't black and white and it's not west vs. east and it's not Muslims vs. Jews.
It's about two entities with a river of blood between them and the fact that in a discussion where I said everybody suffered I was told that I don't understand the conflict I've been living in my entire life.
I was very sad to realise that the people abroad with whom I should be aligned with politically, feel I have nothing to offer in a discussion of that kind simply because I showed a different perspective.
But then again it's as the saying goes: "Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do".
You go in a certain direction for too long and you'll eventually get to the other side.
Also those of who don't know the The Euston Manifesto should read it ASAP. To quote it: "It is vitally important for the future of progressive politics that people of liberal, egalitarian and internationalist outlook should now speak clearly."
Internet discussions have a way of getting out of hand.
Each side cannot really "hear" what the other is saying so the language has to be very concise and accurate and so often each side comes off quite aggressive and patronising.
In an odd turn of events I found myself defending Israel in a way I never had to before.
It was strange, since I'm not really sure how it came to that since all I did was agree with someone, but that's what you get for forsaking your anonymity on-line.
It really bothers me, it shouldn't since it's just a discussion, but it bothers me that instead of hearing, well reading, what I have to say I'm attacked ad hominem for saying something that the other side doesn't agree on.
It's fine that people don't agree, that's what liberty and freedom of speech is about, disagreeing and, like Voltaire, I will die for that right, but it's not okay to tell someone, who is living in the middle of all the shit that goes on here, that they have no idea what's going on here.
It's a total brush off and disregard to the fact that yes Israelis suffer here too.
The Palestinians have it bad on every single front, yes they do. They're in the shit because of Israel, because of Fatah, because of Hamas, because of many, many reasons.
And yes Israel does horrible things (the Wall, the siege on Gaza, the Settlers in Hebron, the "check points") and they are all humiliating and degrading and dehumanizing.
But Hamas launches quasam rockets on Sderot everyday, children in Palestine are taught not to try and do better than their previous generation, but that their deaths will be glorious.
To those living outside Israel it seems easy, just give back the land and have the borders of 67'. Man do I wish and hope we'll come to that, but the current leaders of the Palestinian Authority aren't interested in those borders, they want more, perhaps all. *shrug* at this point it's moot because the West Bank is scattered with settlements I'd be happy to see gone, because that land really isn't Israel's.
I guess what I'm trying to say is the situation ain't black and white and it's not west vs. east and it's not Muslims vs. Jews.
It's about two entities with a river of blood between them and the fact that in a discussion where I said everybody suffered I was told that I don't understand the conflict I've been living in my entire life.
I was very sad to realise that the people abroad with whom I should be aligned with politically, feel I have nothing to offer in a discussion of that kind simply because I showed a different perspective.
But then again it's as the saying goes: "Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do".
You go in a certain direction for too long and you'll eventually get to the other side.
Also those of who don't know the The Euston Manifesto should read it ASAP. To quote it: "It is vitally important for the future of progressive politics that people of liberal, egalitarian and internationalist outlook should now speak clearly."
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