I'm not judging, it's just my opinion

[eumelia]

I am in the opinion that Patriarchy and its siblings Heteronormativity and White supremacy are the roots of evil in our times.

Just in case any of you had any doubt about that.

I just came back from the "Stop Violence Against Women" march and it was good.
We were not that many, because this is a chauvinist country.
The speeches after were very inspiring.

I and a few others then went to get some supper at a pizza place. There was a whole lot of talk about political theory, uni studies, feminism etc.

In the end there appeared to be some kind of combat between neo-Marxist thought and Post-Modernism (of which there was a gross misunderstanding). It was very Bubbly in the sense that "we are living in a bubble", which I'm cool with seeing as us "bubble people" actually went to the march in order to raise awareness that violence against women - it happens, it's societal disease and it needs to be stopped.

There was also talk about Politically Correctness, a term and though process I abhor and how, even as an ally, I really shouldn't use words that do not belong to me. Call me old-fashioned.

Also, there's really no shame in admitting you're bourgeoisie if you, ya know, living that lifestyle. My politics are radical, but my life is liberal, that's the way it is, why should I hide it or be ashamed of it?

One of the girls we sat with had to catch the same bus as me and we continued to talk and oh my god it was awful.
Just so you know, she irritated me.
A lot.

I have a button (I have many) on my bag that reads "Sex is the Question - sex is not the answer - "Yes" is the Answer" (yes I know it's a play on the Nickleback lyrics) which to me is a sex-positive slogan akin to "Yes is Yes" which is just as valid as "No is No".
Anyway, this girl asked me about it and I told her the above and she said:
"You need to be careful with that term [pro-sex], it can be taken to mean you're pro prostitution and stuff like that"
I replied: "Well, I am pro-sex work and pro-porn"
And OMG!
I had never heard such cookie cutter Second Wave Paternalistic bullshit come out of someone younger than me - pardon the ageism, but that's impressive in a horrifying way!
I tried to say that sex-work isn't just human trafficking and crack whores and pimped women.
Her reply: It's all False Conciousness.
In my head I'm going - OMG!
I say: There's queer and alt porn.
She goes: It reproduces the same oppressive mechanism as mainstream porn. It's the same objectification.
I say: There's BDSM that enables you to play with the oppressive power structure and have a good time at the same time.
She goes: BDSM reproduces the power structure, why would you want to do something that humiliates you?

I wanted to kill her and myself.

I really couldn't talk to her any more, because really, it showed such a lack of understanding of what a power structure actually is, that hierarchy is a daily and hourly thing we live and work with our entire lives and that kink does not mean there isn't an actual partnership or that an unequal partnership automatically means there isn't consent!

Because that's what bothers me the most about the Dworkin and MacKinnon types - I really like the way they theorised Patriarchy and Phallocentrism, the tools they offer are awesome, also MacKinno is a brilliant speaker - but if you take their entire thesis you end up saying: women have no ability to consent in the system that we currently live, because there's nothing but False Conciousness.

Yeah, no thanks.

Comments

[constintina.livejournal.com]

After reading this, I wanted to kill myself. Until I got to the end because:

I really like the way they theorised Patriarchy and Phallocentrism..but if you take their entire thesis you end up saying: women have no ability to consent in the system that we currently live, because there's nothing but False Conciousness.


Yes yes yes to the millionth power.

That made me feel better.

Also: the false conciousness concept tends to be so selectively employed--ie when it comes to sex work, but not other kinds of work.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I really wanted to hit something, mainly her, I'm pretty sure the dislike was mutual.
I'm just... I mean... how!?! How!?!?!

[constintina.livejournal.com]

Fear? A lot of super knee-jerk anti-sex work feminists are just scared of sex work, bdsm, and whatever else they've deemed absolutely counter revolutionary. I wish they would just talk to each other about their discomfort with and questions about these things, rather than turning their anxieties into a political platform. Maybe they could even try to listen to sex workers, kinky people, etc.

Of course, arguing with them is like arguing with a pro-lifer who can't even hear any pro-choice arguments because "Abortion = murder, murder is always wrong" beginning, middle, end.

[starlady38.livejournal.com]

but if you take their entire thesis you end up saying: women have no ability to consent in the system that we currently live, because there's nothing but False Conciousness.

Well said. And the idea that all sex is rape is just not something I want to endorse--and critiques that paint those on whose behalf they are critiquing into a corner ultimately only have limited usefulness.

She goes: BDSM reproduces the power structure, why would you want to do something that humiliates you?

*facepalm*

[http://users.livejournal.com/vinyl__/]

BDSM reproduces the power structure, why would you want to do something that humiliates you?

This is so typical. And yet, it blows my mind.

[antikythera.livejournal.com]

you end up saying: women have no ability to consent in the system that we currently live, because there's nothing but False Conciousness.

YES. I've been trying to pin down what it is that's so wrong about Dworkin, and that's it -- I felt like I was being told that anytime a woman is in a sexual situation she's being exploited and controlled. So... are women only being true to themselves if they abstain completely? I couldn't believe feminists fell for that crap. It's like outlawing alcohol in the face of thousands of years of most people drinking responsibly and not getting addicted.

[stateofwonder.livejournal.com]

Ugh. These are the people who give feminists a bad, sex-hating name. I don't understand how women are ever supposed to be empowered through that worldview -- we don't have agency in anything we do, particularly when it comes to sex! It all supports the system! Women are victims forevaaaaarr!

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

critiques that paint those on whose behalf they are critiquing into a corner ultimately only have limited usefulness.
Exactly, I was telling this girl that she was basically blaming sex-workers for the work that they do ("No, I'm not I'm blaming society!) and judging me by saying that BDSM is evil - when I just told you [her] that these sexual practices, among other things, enable you to resist the built in hierarchy of our society.

You say *facepalm" and I wanted it to be *facewindow*!

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I was just so surprised to hear such a so-called "old fashioned" view from a 21 year old girl.
Then again, perhaps she lived an insular life? But so did I! I live an insular life... a lot!

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

As I said, Dworkin and MacKinnon have a really good theoretical stand-point and it's one that I use in speaking about the materiality of oppression when it comes to patriarchy, homophobia and/or racism.

But I can't take it to the end, because I'm sorry, the Penis itself is NOT evil! Really, it's not! A woman choosing sex for herself is not being controlled by her false conciousness, she's having fun! Arrgh.

And YES to what you said.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Women are victims forevaaaaarr!

Do you have any idea how much I've had to deflect that when speaking to not-feminist identified people. That feminism tells women they are victims and can do no wrong! I'm really appalled that this is the backlash and that the snti-sexual autonomy feminist go hand in hand.
Fuck, this girls used the word feminists in "quote marks" when talking about sex-workers who "claim" they chose to work in the industry.
I really wanted to yell, "Yes, because every blue-collar worker "chooses" to be exploited by their bosses! And Trade Union are, of course, utterly meaningless you stupid faux-socialist"
ARRRRGH! But I was on the bus, pissed off and I had already gone off on her before regarding a different matter and felt it was counter-productive any way.

[antongarou.livejournal.com]

We were not that many, because this is a chauvinist country.

Sorry, but you're at least partially wrong. One of the reasons you aren't that many is because of very lousy marketing. If I wasn't friends with someone who's on the Toda'a mailing list I would have no idea that this thing even happened, let alone the possibility to go(as I did, with the SO).

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

News outlets would rather write stories about rape, murder, domestic violence, et al rather than on the people who work to stop those societal diseases. If they do happen to talk about these women and men who work towards empowering victims it's usually in the language of "Look at their holy work, donate money!" or "Some feminist organisations claim that so-and-so is bad for women... this could be an exaggeration"

Lousy marketing? It's called silencing.

[antongarou.livejournal.com]

I'm not talking about news outlets, I'm talking about the internet. There are a whole lot of bloggers out there, I read a nice portion of the Israeli blogosphere daily and didn't see one reference. My friend reads feminism forums and told me nobody mentioned the march there either.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I find that odd, as I had the notice in my email approx. two weeks ago and I'm on a couple of relevant mailing lists.

Dunno what to tell you.

[antongarou.livejournal.com]

That's just the thing- do people bother to tell the ones who're outside the "relevant mailing lists"? I'm not on one, and probably will never be, for example.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Maybe they could even try to listen to sex workers, kinky people, etc.
You mean... actually talk to people in the industry?! *gasp* No! But that would make too much sense and then their entire platform would be, you know, defunct.

The thing is, I don't recall ever being anti-porn and/or anti-sex work/prostitution - I just thought they really got a bad rep and that it didn't mean that the work itself was inherently bad. When I first got into feminism (as a discipline and not as principles I've held since I was child) I was so disappointed to see my thinking wasn't what everyone was talking about. So glad I expanded my reading to the Internet :)