I Don't Get It

[eumelia]

I don't get it.

Really, I don't.

I've been to the States and I didn't get it then. I've been reading up on the subject because the Interwebs are busting with the "health care" discussion.

My country has socialised medicine, we get the choice of four different HMO's, they compete with each other and have supervision and controlling rights over different hospitals.
There is a Health Basket that includes various kinds of medications that would have been unattainable for many people, but through prescription you can get your Insulin, your Xanax, your (practically) whatever you need for an affordable price.

We pay for this service along as well as for national security (so that in case we are unable to work we will still be able to afford health care) through our pay cheques or certificates if one is an independent.

Is it perfect? Hell, no. Most of the time, it is more aggravating than not.

However, this year due to an actual medical necessity I saw the health care system work and we actually got money back after the treatments my mother had to go through were done.

I understand that this sounds like luxury for some and it is. In Third World counties (not all) and in the United States.

That's really fucked up.

Also? Crazy Americans comparing Universal Healthcare to Nazi Policy, WHAT?!

Barney Frank says it better than me (via mizzpyx)

I mock.

That's what I have to say about this really, really redundant debate (it's a debate!!!).

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/_yggdrasil/]

Barney Frank is my new hero. Holy shit.

As for the "debate", yeah, don't expect much more than conservative hysteria, parallel drawing between Obama and Hitler, and derailments with further inquiry into Obama's citizenship.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I just do not understand this thinking!

Granted our HMO's have gone steadily down hill over the past few years due to privatisation and many (who can afford it) have additional private insurance... but I can make an app to my GP for anything without question and not have to pay. I need to pay something like 25NIS, maybe, for a specialist to look at me.

For fuck sake, is it because of Cuba?! Who possibly have the best public health care in the world (lowest infant mortality rate) that the US doesn't want to emulate them?

[http://users.livejournal.com/_yggdrasil/]

Cuba? Honey, please, concern for Cuba is so passé!

Seriously though, much of this debate is conservative kneejerking and probably inspired by racism and white nostalgia (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/17/92234/7265?detail=f), as this person's put it. I've heard a few people voice concern about the practicality of affording healthcare for a nation as huge and diverse as ours, which are fair questions to ask, but sadly those people seem to the be the minority.

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

It's bizarre isn't it. The Americans seem to be the only nation on the PLANET who are against free-at-point-of-service health care.

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

(He should probably have addressed her question rather than refusing to engage with her though, and taken time to explain precisely why her comparing it to the Nazis is so out of order.)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_yggdrasil/]

The interesting thing though is that we already have government funded health insurance coverage (called Medicare) for people over the age of 65. From the news, I gather that that's actually the group most loudly protesting the idea of "socialized" medicine for everyone else. There's a dearth of compassion in my country.

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

You suspect the over-65s are concerned they won't get as much on medicare if the program is expanded to cover more people?

I wonder where the Nazi stuff is coming from.

Can you imagine if anybody had ever referred to Bush as a Nazi? They'd probably have been arrested by Homeland Security.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I just... but why? And why keep so many people impoverished and sick? How does that make sense in the capitalist mind set?

As for your second comment. In my experience, if you're going Godwin, you're already lost. But this is so obviously a case of "that word doesn't mean what you think it means" that it's just too frustrating and I don't blame him for disengaging with a woman who was obviously out to be an agent of provocation.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_yggdrasil/]

God. I remember a while back when you replied to some girl's post where she was proudly showing her ass all over the place ("Privilege, I has it!"). She was literally saying that she doesn't care about oppression and y'all can just suck it and continue to suffer. You replied with a quote by a man who said nothing when the Nazis came for people because he wasn't a member of that group, and you got accused of a Godwin, even though the metaphor was perfectly apt and you know what you're talking about given your family's history. This is the shit I'm talking about in my comment above. I wanted to reach through my screen and start beating people on your behalf.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_yggdrasil/]

Oh, and -

I just... but why? And why keep so many people impoverished and sick? How does that make sense in the capitalist mind set?

I worked hard enough to get private healthcare. Why didn't you? Word harder.

That's what I've heard people say, and they're serious. I think it's also why it's still so hard talking to people here about things like oppression, because a lot of privileged folk still operate under the delusion that everyone can make it, so if they can't, it's their fault and why should I foot the bill? Dig?

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

People have to be poor so that other people can be rich?

There have to be serfs if there are going to be lords...

[kynn.livejournal.com]

Have you seen the craziness of the Israeli dude talking about Israeli health care and then getting a "Heil Hitler" shouted at him by a GOP thugette in an IDF shirt?

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I read your comment ten minutes ago and my mind went through a slough of reactions that seemed appropriate.
Outrage, bogglement, *snort* and then I giggles uncontrolably.

I'd actually like to see this video, because your description is priceless, but I feel that seeing it "live" would be better (worse?!)

[kynn.livejournal.com]

This is the most complete video I've seen of it. The Israeli-American guy was pretty outraged:

http://shemale.livejournal.com/154335.html

At the end she tosses in an anti-tax, anti-abortion rant too. Also note the two men with crossed arms who move in to defend her as she continues to attack the poor man.

[aesiron.livejournal.com]

My impression is that it's a combination of "I got mine" callousness, racism, classism, and flat-out greed. The wealthier (and often whiter) middle and upper classes just simply don't want to pay for the minorities and poor whites who should just get a job and stop doing so many drugs, and they *really* don't like that an uppity negro is the driving force behind it.

Of course, they don't mind most of the socialized programs we already have, like WIC, food stamps, Medicare for the elderly, public roads, national defense, and local, state, and federal police forces.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Well of course not. That's important things your taxes help build!

[kynn.livejournal.com]

I think it's almost entirely racism. They don't want "their" money to pay for "those people," i.e. anyone browner than they are.

I don't actually see much classism; it's poor whites who are vocally complaining about this [1] -- people who could very much benefit from Obama's policies. White people aren't protesting because they're comfortably well-off and they don't want poor whites to get "their" money; they're protesting because they're poor too and yet they hate the idea that any of "their" money could go to keeping blacks healthy or whatever.

So, IMO, almost 100% barely veiled racism.


[1] Although they are, of course, supported and egged on by very corporate interests which are definitionally classist. But there's a question of who the dog is and who the tail is, and who is wagging whom.

[aesiron.livejournal.com]

I think most *poor* whites are arguing against UHC out of racism, but I get the impression that the less-poor, i.e. the nebulous "middle class" that every American pretends to be, are arguing for for classist reasons as well. I'm a white Southerner living in a trailer park, and while I do have privelege due to my pale skin, I'm still considered unclean in large swathes of society.

[lishablog.livejournal.com]

I had a really disturbing discussion with an Israeli-American who lives in New York about exactly this topic day before yesterday. I'm so shocked by the fact that he would believe the nonsense about death panels and taking away existing health care for the under-2's and the over 60's... And he also compared Jews who support the health care reform bill with Jews who supported the rise of Hitler before the stat of the Holocaust.

I am most angry at myself because in my shock I was completely and utterly unable to set this man straight. I just kind of froze up in a moment of WTF?!

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

O_o

What the hell?! Because wanting to stop systemic racism as it's enabled through the health system is exactly like supporting Hitler pre-Nuremberg.
No difference, what so ever.

I'm curious as to how these people think the private insurance companies chose who gets to receive what services they need at any given time.

[gonzo21.livejournal.com]

It really upsets me, and makes me angry, that people are in all seriousness comparing it to Nazism. Because yes, lets compare a plan to help poor people with a cultural movement that killed over a hundred million people. Exactly the same thing!

And you just can't argue with that level of stupid either.

[mikebg.livejournal.com]

I'm from Canada, and I absolutely agree with you.

[quicksilvermad.livejournal.com]

I was denied Anthem BlueCare because of my "mental health status" but sent new forms for a slightly more expensive health coverage with the Virginia Standard Plan.

Still without health coverage here.

And I'm watching my mail like a hawk for that special big white envelope that'll have my cards in it so I can fax the info over to my doctors and I don't have to worry about, you know, ending up crazy or in the hospital because I did something stupid.

That's the danger here.

I just want coverage. I don't have a steady full time job (yet), and I'm not even sure the job I'll finally get will offer a health coverage package. And I'm sick to the teeth about all these "rumors" flying around and ready to just smack my dad across the face the next time he mentions how he considers everything Obama is saying is "wrong."

I HATE LIVING WITH REPUBLICANS.

I actually had to tell a DNC representative that I couldn't put his sign in my front yard despite the fact I'll be voting for him because (and I had to whisper this) "I'm living with Republicans."

*HEAD TABLE*

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Dude, that's crazy.

I... dunno, I have nothing to add about that.

[quicksilvermad.livejournal.com]

I wanna move to Barbados and live off the fish I catch. I think I could become an excellent hermit.

BUT I STILL WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GO GET MEDICATION WITHOUT EMPTYING MY BANK ACCOUNT.