Community, Fandom and maybe a smattering of Feminism

[eumelia]

I was introduced to comic books fairly late in life and I was far more loyal to the cartoons of my favourite comic book heroes than the books, which to me at the time seemed like a waste of time.
But when your eyes are opened to the beauty, mastery and utter genius of this medium you do your best to find the genre you enjoy the most, the characters you like best and you tend to stick with it, at least me.
But the comic book community in Israel is still very much a "boy's clubhouse", I mean when I walked into Comikaza the proprietors took one look at me and said "Neil Gaiman?" I smiled and answered in the affirmative, took my money for the pre-ordering of stuff for iCon and asked me if I was interested in anything else.
I was about to say "Batman" when one of them said "Give her the Jill Thompson little Death book".
It sounded interesting so I accepted the offer and rifled through the little book, I didn't bother to read it, because really Jill Thompson is not my favourite and the art was too Manga for my taste, so I gave it back to them and told them I didn't like the art work so much.
One of them stared at me as though I'd grown another head, I then asked if they could show me some DC stuff.
"You prefer American Comics?" The one who stared asked
"Yes, I don't like the art in Manga that much"
"But, but that's what makes it better than American ones"
*shrug* "I don't like the large eyes"
"But you're a girl!"
A death glare of doom was given to him.
"What does that have to do with anything?" he was obviously new to the business, because the other one rolled his eyes and was about to interject when the new guy said "All the girls like Manga and Neil Gaiman".
I gave him a frosty look and said "I don't think you hang with a whole lot of girls if all the ones you know like Neil Gaiman and Manga, when in fact a majority of the young women I know much prefer the American style comic books for a variety of reasons, in fact, and this may come as a shock to you, most girls actually like not only Neil Gaiman, Manga and Comic Books, but cartoons like Transformers and shows like Star Trek, Farscape and not just *gasp* the Joss Whedon stuff, which I'm sure *all* the girls like".
The new guy gave me a look which basically dismissed everything I had just said and went back to the counter without addressing anything I had mentioned.
The other proprietor shrugged and said he hopes to see me at iCon.
Nice man.

I don't understand this stereotyping and classification of girls and young women within this little community of sci-fi, fantasy and fandom.
Boys like Neil Gaiman, Manga, Star Trek, Transformers AND DC & Marvel, Buffy, Firefly, Anime and more, but girls aren't expected to have more than one or two fandoms, at least 'round here.
What? I like other sci-fi shows that have nothing to do with Buffy other than the fact that they appear in jokes. What? I know the difference between a Galaxy class ship and a Sovereign Class. What?! I know that there were FOUR Robins! Four! Not three, four! Two of them dead. And guess what; I even know their names.
And so girls, young and old are marginalized in the Israeli comic book community, not because there is a lack of presence in the sci-fi community, far from it, as I've stated the sci-fi & fantasy community is very egalitarian and has a very strong female presence, not so in the Comic Book.

What really gets me, is that this isn't really true, at the Animation and Comics festival I went to a few weeks ago there were a ton of girls and many booths run by both men and women and one or two run exclusively by women, but there were still more boys than girls and I couldn't help but feel a bit isolated while I was riffling through Marvel comics searching for something worth while discussing Slash with one of the guys standing next to me, while at the other end of the table there was a group young girls "ooohing" and "Aaahing" into yaoi Manga. And the other girls at the Americana books giving me suspicious looks, because They are the only girls who know Comic Books.
And there are those few who know I've seen Anime and tell me that of course I like Manga, no people, I watched a few Anime shows in High School that were good and even had a crush on Integral from "Hellsing" for a while (thank you Shira for showing me Anime and thank you Taly for showing me Integral), but anyone who will look at my book case will notice a lack of anything Manga-ish.

Maybe I'm over reacting, maybe I'm overly sensitive.
Maybe I'm just observant.

Comments

[lord-dingsi.livejournal.com]

Maybe I'm over reacting, maybe I'm overly sensitive.

From my perspective, no, you are neither overreacting nor overly sensitive. "If you are a girl, you MUST like manga [so we can shove you into a nice little manga ghetto corner and keep our superhero comics to ourselves]" -- that's one of my pet peeves, actually. And although I love Neil Gaiman's Sandman to bits, I still raise an eyebrow when people don't bother finding out what you like and just rattle off a list of "usual suspects". On a personal level, I'd like the terms "girls' comics" and "boys' comics" to die painfully, kthxbai.

Another pet peeve is this "X is BETTER than Y" attitude when it comes to Western vs. Eastern Comics. No, in my opinion, neither is "better". They are just different, and the rest is depending on your own preferences.
But I digress... sorry.

And, yes, way to dismiss YOU, with all your interests and experiences and knowledge, because you are a girl and therefore not capable of forming an opinion, or connecting with, various types of media fandom. Grargh.

You know what I find astounding? That, apparently, this attitude towards female fans (in this case, comic geeks) is the same no matter where you look. Be it USA, UK, Germany, or Israel.
And that's fucking SAD.

On a more general note: You rock, and Integral rocks, and your Catwoman icon rocks.


And it's Thompson, not Thompkinson. Sorry, I just had to say it.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

And it's Thompson, not Thompkinson. Sorry, I just had to say it.
So it is; corrected, thank you (must have been thinking about the Dr. Leslie :P)

On a more general note: You rock, and Integral rocks, and your Catwoman icon rocks.
Too kind :)

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

You know what I find astounding? That, apparently, this attitude towards female fans (in this case, comic geeks) is the same no matter where you look. Be it USA, UK, Germany, or Israel.
And that's fucking SAD.

GD tell me about it, while I was in the states I would go to the book shops there and hang on the comic book and graphic novel sections and some of the guys sitting there reading would give me this look which basically said "encroaching on my territory".
It is more than SAD... it's PATHETIC.

[ayellowbirds.livejournal.com]

so, you know what to do... keep going to those stores. If you have female friends who like the same comics, make sure they buy their comics in stores instead of online. Make yourself a visible part of the comics community.

There's lots of stereotypes about comics, true; but sometimes all it really takes is showing people something that defies the stereotype to break them of it. You know the stereotypical comic shop owner? The nearest comic book store is run by a man who looks so much like Bishop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bishop-Pacheco.jpg), it's said that the character design was actually based on him. Basically the same guy, but with realistic musculature. Now, times may change, but i'm always going to have it in my head that a comics store can be run by a guy like that.

[ayellowbirds.livejournal.com]

i'd say you win when it comes to Star Trek, but my friend has Hamlet in the original Klingon.

you count one more Robin than most people are willing to acknowledge, even if they've read that storyline. Most people i hear from are pissed about the way it ended, anyway.

Personally, i'm ticked at the direction they went with Dent. I really wanna see a "former villain turned hero is framed for crimes" story that doesn't end in them returning to villainy.

Have you heard the latest Whedon/comics news (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=8342)?

Now i kind of want to do a study on gender and comics genre preference.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

you count one more Robin than most people are willing to acknowledge, even if they've read that storyline. Most people i hear from are pissed about the way it ended, anyway.

It did end very badly.

[kynn.livejournal.com]

I know that there were FOUR Robins! Four! Not three, four! Two of them dead. And guess what; I even know their names.

Five, if you count the Dick Grayson of Earth-2. :)

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

True... very true :)

[tammy212.livejournal.com]

What gets me is that it would make them crazy if they were all lumped together--boys only like X-Men and Battlestar Galactica, boys never like Gaiman or Catwoman, forget Miyazaki . . . but girls?

I don't read manga. Don't get it, never did. The eyes, the big racks, the teeny outfits, just weird me out. But then, I don't read chick lit, either. I read superhero comics, even when they make me crazy in their handling of female characters (okay, after enough mishandlings I dump that particular comic and keep a wary eye out for that writer). I do like Gaiman, Birds of Prey, and Firefly, but I also like 80s Frank Miller, X-Men, Spider-Man, and Civil War.

This is just plain lazy thinking. People don't want to actually get their brains to work, so they set a default, and they don't re-examine new information to see if it might contradict their old ideas. Keep buying the comics you want. If the guys get too obnoxious, ask them when was the last time they actually talked to a girl comics reader? And imagine their brains like the big, limp muscles they are. As long as you don't let your brain get like that, you're doing well!

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

As long as you don't let your brain get like that, you're doing well!

Thanks!
Due to this incident I've decided to become a little more involved in real life comic book fandom in Israel, it's just ridiculous that I should be spoken to that way, so I'm going to start actually going to the (two) stores we have here and buy from them as opposed to online, just to have my presence known.

[tammy212.livejournal.com]

You go, girl!

[(Anonymous)]

Try Komiks Ve'Yerakot on King George. The proprietor discusses my Crisis on Infinite Earths obsession with me and recommended Green Lantern:Rebirth despite the fact that he knows I also read Gaiman and have boobs. Which when written down looks ridiculous - why should one preclude the other and what does either have to do with my gender - but as your experience shows, some people are indeed ridiculous...

- Gali

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've decided to just go to Comikaza on the 13th to meet Gaiman and NEVER go back.
I usually buy my stuff from CnV and really like the people, so I think I'm going to do a membership at CnV, maybe join אוק"י at iCon.